A heated discussion on 'Race, Gender & the Blues'

[Louis Erlanger]

The blues used to be about telling a story, and enhancing the emotional
aspect of the story with the music.  A lot of white blues musicians miss
that.  And I think they miss it because telling a story and having an
audience respond to that story is a different experience for white
audiences than it was for black audiences when the blues was the popular
music of the time.  So a lot of white blues is the presentation if
instrumental prowess, sometimes in the form of sheer volume, rather than
a conversation among instruments and voices geared towards telling a story.

On 5/24/2012 5:05 AM, chuck 249 wrote:
> Ok, now I guess this has become a what is rock and roll and what is R&B thread.
> You say those three gentlemen came out of a R&B background, but I say
> they came out of a blues background, and then evolved into R&B
> artists.
>
> Maybe I should have, for discussion sake, kept it to country. Let's do
> that, instead of argue about where R&B started, and Rock began. Why do
> you suppose so few black artists were chasing the country genre money,
> if money (as Dick claims) is what it is all about? We know they had
> the talent, and the vocal chops. Country music is just as green, or
> greener, than that of the blues genre. I know plenty of them listened
> to it and liked it, and I know that the country genre has been popular
> (i.e. profitable). It wasn't because they didn't like money or need
> it, we all do.
>
> Was it simply because of one of the two factors that this Chicago
> symposium dealt with was at play, racism? Do you suppose that the good
> old boys that ran things said whoa there brother man/woman, where in
> the hell do you think you are going (ok, let in the black black guy)
> this here is "our music," which I guess is essentially the flip side
> and what has some people rattled over whites playing, selling, and
> taking some of the blues market share. I think it is, and why the
> problem is not crossing over, the problem is the one no one usually
> wants to talk about, racism.
> The racism is from both sides. I just think that there is an argument
> to be made that the country genre has, with a couple of exceptions,
> been able to lock out the African American artists from having much
> more than crumbs of their country cobbler, while we have been reading
> in this very thread that half of many of the blues festivals acts are
> white...as is often the case when you listen to the various blues
> radio shows.
>
> When it comes to the blues pie, which started off as an African
> American art form, the Anglos have come in and taken half the market.
> The country genre pie, which is much, much larger, has not done the
> same. It is isn't because blacks would not like to make money off of
> it just like the whites make money off of the blues. Is that because
> of racism? If country music would have welcomed black acts long ago
> would there be much less friction between the races? I think so. Elvis
> took to covering blues artists, and even though Alan Freed claimed it
> was something new that he called Rock&  Roll (ok, so he stole that
> term too), I cannot help but think that down the line those young
> white kids who looked deeper into life than how far Buddy's flat top
> stood up, realized that black music wasn't as dangerous as they had
> been led to believe. Kids in England probably took home the same
> lessons from listening to bands like the Beatles and Stones cover
> black artists. They realized, to some degree, that we are all
> basically the same. Who knows, if the same headway had been made in
> the country music genre we might not have to listen to jug heads
> claiming they "want to take their country back."
>
> chuck, in dallas
>
> On May 23, 2012, at 22:44, Jay Watterworth<jaywatterworth@comcast.net>  wrote:
>
>> Those three gentlemen (along with others) defined Rock and Roll.  They might have come from a R&B background, but they all quickly made rock what it is. To buttonhole blacks in R&B takes a lot out of what rock really is.
>>
>> I am not denigrating R&B by any means though I don't care much for contemporary R&B.  James Brown, Otis Redding, etc. represented that art form pretty well even though they had a taste of rock from time to time and certainly influenced rock.
>>
>> Jay
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message----- From: chuck 249
>> Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2012 8:59 PM
>> To: BLUES-L@LISTSERV.NETHELPS.COM
>> Subject: Re: A heated discussion on 'Race, Gender&  the Blues'
>>
>> I really don't think of those cats as rock stars....R&B stars, yes.
>>
>> Try again.
>>
>> On May 23, 2012, at 21:05, "jinxblues@aol.com"<jinxblues@aol.com>  wrote:
>>
>>
>> One wonders...at least this one wonders....why is it that there are so
>> many white blues acts/artists, while so very, very few black rock and
>> country acts/artists? If the theory about it being all about the
>> money, then it would only make sense that black artists would have
>> migrated into the rock and country genres, where there has long been
>> more money to be made than in the blues genre. That has not happened.
>> Jimi and Mr Pride. Ray Charles took a few stabs at the country genre
>> in the 60s. There you have it.
>>
>> ---------------
>>
>> I have given this some
>> CHUCK BERRY!
>> thought and you are
>> LITTLE RICHARD!
>> right, I don't know of any . . .
>> BO DIDDLEY!
>>
>> Dick Waterman
>> 1601 Buchanan Avenue
>> Oxford, MS 38655
>>
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